WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.290 --> 00:00:22.410 Joe Dauer (he/him): Speaker of the Conference, so we have Dr Julian the bottle here so before we get started so just a reminder that this is. 2 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:40.440 Joe Dauer (he/him): The keynote speaker and then we'll do the will go to the other concurrent sessions, after a short break after the end of this talk and if you have questions during the talk if you can just add them to the chat and then I will moderate those questions at the end of. 3 00:00:41.580 --> 00:00:50.790 Joe Dauer (he/him): Talk so in our current situation videos that become Interpol to teaching across all the disciplines, so our next speaker Dr Joanne the bardo. 4 00:00:51.030 --> 00:00:57.780 Joe Dauer (he/him): Has researched how students learn by curiously, while watching other students engage in dialogue to solve math problems. 5 00:00:58.410 --> 00:01:09.000 Joe Dauer (he/him): Dr lovato is a professor in the department of mathematics and statistics at San Diego State University and also a researcher at the Center for research and mathematics and science, education. 6 00:01:09.810 --> 00:01:13.560 Joe Dauer (he/him): she's well known for developing the actor oriented transfer perspective. 7 00:01:14.550 --> 00:01:27.360 Joe Dauer (he/him): In this perspective, the researcher looks for the ways in which students, also known as the actors connect transfer and learning situations, rather than pre determining what counts is transfer from the experts perspective. 8 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:37.980 Joe Dauer (he/him): actor oriented transfer helps detect generalizations of learning experiences and allows for prior experiences, including the social context to affect transfer. 9 00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:57.210 Joe Dauer (he/him): or recent research focuses on how students learn vicariously when watching dialogues, while her research is rooted in mathematics education today's talk will be relatable for all, since it draws upon vicarious learning studies from a variety of stem disciplines her talk is titled dialogic. 10 00:01:57.330 --> 00:01:59.250 Joe Dauer (he/him): Online videos and stem learning. 11 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:03.870 Joe Dauer (he/him): So thank you, Dr vital for joining us and i'm going to turn it over to you. 12 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:07.920 Joanne Lobato: Thank you, Joe. 13 00:02:08.310 --> 00:02:23.910 Joanne Lobato: You know i've all the areas of research in my career so far this current project about new models of online videos has definitely been the most fun so i'm grateful for and honored to have the chance to talk with you about it today. 14 00:02:27.150 --> 00:02:43.920 Joanne Lobato: So as john mentioned the pandemic has forced us all to go to online instruction, which has resulted in K 12 teachers parents university faculty and students of all ages, turning to the Internet searching for online videos. 15 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:52.350 Joanne Lobato: And over the past decade, there has been a proliferation of websites offering online videos for stem learning. 16 00:02:54.660 --> 00:02:58.740 Joanne Lobato: But despite the enormous volume of videos available online. 17 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:16.410 Joanne Lobato: Janet Bowers and colleague summarize, at least in them from math videos that there is surprising uniformity in presentation there either a talking head or talking hand demonstrates a single step by step procedure for solving a given problem. 18 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:39.150 Joanne Lobato: It seems like we have this amazing technology that allows students to access content from anywhere at any time, and you control the piece of learning, but yet we have yet to fully realize the potential and we need to imagine and create alternative models for stem education videos. 19 00:03:42.090 --> 00:03:52.680 Joanne Lobato: know, in particular, we wondered, where are the student voices in these videos yeah we thought surely there had to be any of innovative videos out there that brought in student thinking. 20 00:03:53.520 --> 00:04:12.120 Joanne Lobato: And because my research areas been at the secondary school math level we search for K 12 online math videos in a variety of places that we thought might have produced innovative alternative models, like in SF projects and educational video repositories. 21 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:32.100 Joanne Lobato: We found After reviewing hundreds of K 12 math videos only a small number of videos had student voices and we categorize those as falling into three different categories first she's found some students who would just take on a traditional role like they would mimic a teacher. 22 00:04:33.810 --> 00:04:47.790 Joanne Lobato: And when there wasn't real dialogue and Problem Solving the videos used animated characters instead of real kids and for YouTube videos there's an awful lot of kids rapping formula math formulas. 23 00:04:50.910 --> 00:05:06.480 Joanne Lobato: Now you can find some online videos that feature conceptual understanding and show students communicating their mouth ideas, but these have been generally created for teachers not filmed for students to actually learn from. 24 00:05:08.190 --> 00:05:12.510 Joanne Lobato: So we found inspiration in emerging research. 25 00:05:14.400 --> 00:05:23.370 Joanne Lobato: On the use of videos with dialogues with undergraduates from several different science disciplines in computer literacy. 26 00:05:23.760 --> 00:05:37.410 Joanne Lobato: And i'm going to just a highlight two of those studies at one is done in physics by Derek muller some of you might know him as the creator of the awesome YouTube channel very awesome. 27 00:05:38.070 --> 00:05:48.300 Joanne Lobato: He in the study assigned undergraduates to one of two types of video treatments one was a monologue and the other was a dialogue and the model I treatment. 28 00:05:48.600 --> 00:06:05.040 Joanne Lobato: A quick explanation for gravitational forces offered and in the dialogue, a student voices and misconception, and then a tutor and the students have an exchange about why that idea work and then a correct scientific explanation is offered. 29 00:06:06.930 --> 00:06:15.840 Joanne Lobato: And the participants in the study were given a short pre and post test using force concept inventory type questions. 30 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:23.760 Joanne Lobato: They were also interviewed in one of the interview questions was what did what did you think of the video. 31 00:06:25.260 --> 00:06:33.630 Joanne Lobato: So that students who had viewed the monologue but thought it was graves clear, concise, easy to understand. 32 00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:45.060 Joanne Lobato: That the students who viewed the dialogue actually found it kind of confusing, however, there were the only group that had pre post gains, unlike the monologue group. 33 00:06:47.790 --> 00:07:09.210 Joanne Lobato: In biology there's a study where gang undergraduates were assigned to monologue versus dialogue treatments in this case that I was unscripted were in a dark molars case you use scripted videos and this was around the topic of molecular diffusion. 34 00:07:10.740 --> 00:07:12.570 Joanne Lobato: And the dialogue group. 35 00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:24.690 Joanne Lobato: outperformed those in the monologue grub and then she and colleagues did a follow up study to find out why that was the case to they did a secondary analysis on this same data. 36 00:07:25.260 --> 00:07:33.540 Joanne Lobato: and found the in the dialogic video condition undergraduates more often engaged in Problem Solving versus copying solutions. 37 00:07:35.130 --> 00:07:42.960 Joanne Lobato: And they repeated and elaborated more statements made by the student than the tutor even even when the student may be incorrect statements. 38 00:07:44.250 --> 00:07:53.670 Joanne Lobato: So the author is concluded that the crucial element of a dialogic video is an authentic learner who displays confusion and asks questions. 39 00:07:55.920 --> 00:08:12.060 Joanne Lobato: So our aim and creating our videos for our project was to feature pairs of students engaging in dialogue where dialogue is a conversation that involves the quality of inquiry, which aims at developing new insights and learning. 40 00:08:14.130 --> 00:08:26.490 Joanne Lobato: And we extended this previous research by bringing these dialogic videos down into secondary mouth learning by using pairs of students, as opposed to student tutor Paris. 41 00:08:27.690 --> 00:08:41.070 Joanne Lobato: And by filming sequences of videos showing the same students learning over time and, by doing that, we have to contribute to the expansion of different models of what's possible in online videos. 42 00:08:44.190 --> 00:08:51.960 Joanne Lobato: Now the rest of the talk is organized into two main sections first development and then research in theory. 43 00:08:54.300 --> 00:09:00.300 Joanne Lobato: So we call ourselves project bath talk and our videos can be found at math talk.org. 44 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:24.840 Joanne Lobato: In a previous exploratory grant we created two units of videos and in our pre in our current nsf grant we are developing six more units for different algebra one and two topics and each video unit is broken down into about seven lessons and has about 40 short videos for each unit. 45 00:09:27.060 --> 00:09:39.930 Joanne Lobato: So i'd like to introduce you to our videos by focusing on two features First is the unscripted dialogue and i'm going to be showing you to video clips from. 46 00:09:40.980 --> 00:09:56.280 Joanne Lobato: These two students, we call them the talent were very Hollywood especially cuny or grade 910 students and they are working on a task in which they're trying to create a parabola from its geometric definition. 47 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:07.860 Joanne Lobato: And that definition is that a parabola instead of points that are equal distance from a fixed point COPA focus and a fixed line called the director X. 48 00:10:08.400 --> 00:10:21.000 Joanne Lobato: So to solve this task you need to create a focus in a director and then find ways to please points so that they are the same distance to the focus as they are to the director X. 49 00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:33.420 Joanne Lobato: And i'm just super imposing the final correct solution that smashing kiani eventually came to the started out with a lot of false starts and confusion. 50 00:10:34.710 --> 00:10:42.030 Joanne Lobato: They had been taught about problems in their regular math class that had never seen this definition or this task. 51 00:10:43.680 --> 00:10:49.710 Joanne Lobato: There they started describing what they knew about parabolas is saying a problem is V, or you shape on a graph. 52 00:10:51.330 --> 00:11:09.510 Joanne Lobato: And when they place their first point they use the midpoint between the focus and the director X and we're able to explain why it fit the definition that the distance was the same between their point and the focus as it was between their point and the directors. 53 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:23.550 Joanne Lobato: And i'm going to show you a two minute clip where qt places a new point it's right under his finger you can't see it in that little snapshot there it's right to the. 54 00:11:23.880 --> 00:11:32.520 Joanne Lobato: Right below the correct point that they had placed and they disagree about whether it's correct or not it actually is not correct. 55 00:11:32.970 --> 00:11:43.530 Joanne Lobato: But cuny thinks that is and Sasha disagrees with them and either during viewing this two minute video or give you time afterwards just entered into chat if you. 56 00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:59.640 Joanne Lobato: are so inclined, in anything you notice about the video might be about the students their interactions the off screen teacher, the nature of their confusion or anything else alright so here goes the video and. 57 00:12:00.660 --> 00:12:01.590 I mean it looks a cool. 58 00:12:02.880 --> 00:12:03.570 right there. 59 00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:06.270 Okay. 60 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.300 Joanne Lobato: But then it's like then it's again it's not you know you know. 61 00:12:13.770 --> 00:12:19.320 Okay, but hold up okay so there's that and then to there oh it's. 62 00:12:32.160 --> 00:12:42.930 Both set of points or equal distance from, so this is equal this distance share from one of our points to the direct tricks. 63 00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:48.060 is the same as the distance from the points of focus. 64 00:12:49.830 --> 00:12:51.840 And then, this point. 65 00:12:53.310 --> 00:12:54.720 The distance from. 66 00:12:56.490 --> 00:12:57.420 metrics to. 67 00:13:00.930 --> 00:13:04.020 is equal to the. 68 00:13:11.310 --> 00:13:15.930 kitchen it wasn't actually if they're both equal distance. 69 00:13:17.100 --> 00:13:18.660 So we have a parabola. 70 00:13:22.470 --> 00:13:25.080 So, if this is a cool like that, and this is equal at. 71 00:13:27.210 --> 00:13:29.280 How many points do you think room the problem. 72 00:13:30.510 --> 00:13:40.830 Well, at least two of them, probably like you know, like with the UN, it just continues so it's like I should just keep going on how many points. 73 00:13:42.630 --> 00:13:44.460 At least 3am. 74 00:13:45.690 --> 00:13:48.810 yeah cuz we just have a right excellent article, you know. 75 00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:54.030 If there is an insane amount that I think you should try to find more than two. 76 00:14:03.210 --> 00:14:05.070 let's try one of those and then. 77 00:14:08.520 --> 00:14:09.870 see if it fits the definition. 78 00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:11.190 Oh. 79 00:14:12.390 --> 00:14:14.580 john to be perfect, as. 80 00:14:16.410 --> 00:14:28.800 It finishes so pick one of those points so this point that when you're ready to turn and what are you talking about it, just like that one okay yeah that the same distance to your line, as it is to the focus. 81 00:14:30.180 --> 00:14:36.240 Just on hey, why do you say that because it's like you can just visual clue and then. 82 00:14:37.680 --> 00:14:38.490 There you go. 83 00:14:40.680 --> 00:14:41.130 park. 84 00:14:46.260 --> 00:15:01.170 Joanne Lobato: So i've noticed that a few people have entered some really awesome observations about the video to chat, I would like to give another minute or two for people to enter and have a chance to read other people's observations anything you notice about the video. 85 00:15:50.190 --> 00:16:01.230 Joanne Lobato: said i've noticed in the chat are how comfortable they feel with each other experimenting they were friends outside of this and I think that really helped. 86 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:06.510 Joanne Lobato: With them listening to each other, also someone noted that. 87 00:16:07.110 --> 00:16:20.730 Joanne Lobato: The definition is sort of coming into focus it's not in focus yet, especially for cuny and I think this is the role of the teacher is not so much to give them a lot of information, but the hopes of redirecting their attention and guiding them. 88 00:16:22.680 --> 00:16:30.030 Joanne Lobato: And you may have noticed that we have some annotations here some labels on the videos. 89 00:16:31.410 --> 00:16:39.720 Joanne Lobato: Are video videos are not raw we edit them we annotate like the labels on and we also summarize. 90 00:16:41.370 --> 00:16:47.040 Joanne Lobato: We have an automated summary so i'm going to show you one of them, so in this one minute video. 91 00:16:47.640 --> 00:17:01.530 Joanne Lobato: which you to watch for the voice over summary at the end and we do this to really highlight the talents ideas for the viewers, but we try to stay close to their ideas and we actually even use kunis hand in the animation. 92 00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:17.250 Joanne Lobato: And this one minute clip come soon after the video that you just watched and now he seems to be paying more attention to the definition and correctly uses it to create a new method to place two more points on the problem. 93 00:17:21.120 --> 00:17:22.020 And then we can. 94 00:17:29.040 --> 00:17:29.910 Joanne Lobato: let's make it. 95 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:35.340 Joanne Lobato: Three inches away from. 96 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:41.670 Joanne Lobato: us. 97 00:17:47.310 --> 00:17:47.820 electrics. 98 00:17:55.020 --> 00:17:56.100 Joanne Lobato: Both of our points. 99 00:18:04.290 --> 00:18:04.950 points. 100 00:18:06.330 --> 00:18:13.260 Okay, a point to the focus is three inches of points of the director existing anxious saml rear. 101 00:18:15.270 --> 00:18:33.540 yeah cuny has discovered a new method he first places the focus three inches from the direct tricks, then he places a point three inches to one side of the focus and the point three inches to the other side of the focus. 102 00:18:34.620 --> 00:18:44.760 Joanne Lobato: These two points work, because each point is the same distance from the focus as it is from the directories nearly three inches. 103 00:18:50.070 --> 00:18:57.360 Joanne Lobato: Far we talk about our research will just mention what it's been like filming pre pandemic and now. 104 00:18:58.320 --> 00:19:03.600 Joanne Lobato: Before the pens and make we had set up a film studio at our research Center. 105 00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:13.290 Joanne Lobato: And now we are just about ready to film, we have created a zoom based approach that uses the whiteboard explain everything. 106 00:19:13.590 --> 00:19:35.010 Joanne Lobato: And we will be delivering these care packages of the equipment to the talents, who will be participating and it includes an individual green screen iPad microphone and webcam but in our prototypes we've been able to get pretty close to the look of our original videos. 107 00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:46.410 Joanne Lobato: So now i'd like to turn to research and theory about by curious learning and share with you the results of three of our studies. 108 00:19:46.950 --> 00:19:52.830 Joanne Lobato: But first i'd like to define this term that i've been using by curious learning. 109 00:19:53.400 --> 00:20:02.160 Joanne Lobato: So this was a term that Pandora introduced in the 1960s, they were following a more technology enhanced version of it by following. 110 00:20:02.730 --> 00:20:13.680 Joanne Lobato: nicotine colleagues definition of vicarious learning meaning learning by observing and engaging with video or audio tape presentations of other people engaged in learning. 111 00:20:14.610 --> 00:20:36.780 Joanne Lobato: So you've just seen session kiani engaged in dialogue and viewers of that dialogue are participating in their dialogue, indirectly, for vicariously so those students in the videos are called the talent and the viewer engaged with their dialogue is called the vicarious learner. 112 00:20:39.300 --> 00:20:51.660 Joanne Lobato: We have taken our videos out to high schools and actually use them with undergraduates in a number of studies we used students in focus testing to help develop the book for our videos. 113 00:20:52.110 --> 00:21:05.940 Joanne Lobato: And also one study we put one lesson in front of a larger number of students and then followed a smaller number of students, as they work through the entire problem unit, I also had a. 114 00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:13.500 Joanne Lobato: Student to his dissertation study with undergraduate math majors and will be sharing a little bit of his findings later. 115 00:21:15.780 --> 00:21:22.200 Joanne Lobato: So the first research finding is about how the vicarious learners oriented towards the talents. 116 00:21:23.490 --> 00:21:40.830 Joanne Lobato: But first I want to share as a theoretical idea from the Scottish by curious learning project, which was one of the original projects working in this space and they conceived of a vicarious learner as a way your to dialogue. 117 00:21:42.330 --> 00:21:48.180 Joanne Lobato: and said that for curious learning and false something they called epistemic detachment. 118 00:21:49.320 --> 00:21:54.840 Joanne Lobato: that there was an emotional and cognitive distancing from ideas and social demands. 119 00:21:56.010 --> 00:22:12.930 Joanne Lobato: And that this could be useful, because the vicarious learners are not as emotionally involved in defending their own position, then they might be able to better able to attend to what was being said and to be able to take on the perspective of each person involved in that dialogue. 120 00:22:15.270 --> 00:22:29.010 Joanne Lobato: In her city, we I personally found some evidence to indicate that vicarious learning could can proceed and just the opposite way that there'd be emotional investment, instead of a epistemic detachment and the there. 121 00:22:30.060 --> 00:22:40.740 Joanne Lobato: That the vicarious learners could orient towards of talent, as if they were in a collaborative group with them, which we call cause collaboration, rather than acting like four years. 122 00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:53.520 Joanne Lobato: And this comes from a study of investigating this pair of students, over time, as they worked through an entire unit of videos and we categorize five. 123 00:22:54.330 --> 00:23:08.100 Joanne Lobato: categories of behavior that were consistent with what we called a closet collaborative and a stance and emotional attachment to the talent, so let me just briefly share three categories of behavior with you. 124 00:23:09.780 --> 00:23:23.430 Joanne Lobato: The first is that the vicarious learners frequently characterized Sasha and kunis mathematical personalities, so they said oh Sasha she's she's like the generalized Sir, she was like to find shortcuts. 125 00:23:23.850 --> 00:23:29.580 Joanne Lobato: He only has been thought of role he takes a long way he's careful and repetitive. 126 00:23:30.360 --> 00:23:44.850 Joanne Lobato: And then they actually went on to align each of themselves with one of the mathematical personalities of the talent so Belinda said, you know it's like i'm like yoni and your Sasha because I always want to go a long way. 127 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:56.070 Joanne Lobato: And then does read Johnson yeah because she meaning Belinda always wants to do something bigger and I wanted to it, the short way right away, just like just like session. 128 00:23:58.710 --> 00:24:15.660 Joanne Lobato: Now we can't say that they're in a collaborative group with the talent, because the talents aren't even in the same room with them, but Richard Barrett argues that central to collaboration is a process in which students organized themselves to engage in coordinated activity. 129 00:24:16.800 --> 00:24:24.540 Joanne Lobato: And by coordinated activity, she talked about paying attention to ideas of all group members comparing one's work to others. 130 00:24:25.590 --> 00:24:27.630 Joanne Lobato: and keeping track of what's been said. 131 00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:43.410 Joanne Lobato: And that's exactly what happened, they would vicarious learners would say things like chili the same mistake is us, referring to Sasha or things like she said the same thing as you or they have new edits to. 132 00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:56.520 Joanne Lobato: and family a category behavior was that the vicarious learners me several statements to suggest that they are part of a Community with the talent and. 133 00:24:57.810 --> 00:24:59.910 Joanne Lobato: believed that they were struggling together. 134 00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:11.550 Joanne Lobato: A common theme was the pain of feeling alone and a math classroom when one is confused and that shared confusion via the video helps alleviate that pain. 135 00:25:13.980 --> 00:25:21.330 Joanne Lobato: So i'm going to share a one minute video from the vicarious learners this occurred at the end of a research session. 136 00:25:22.020 --> 00:25:29.940 Joanne Lobato: They just watch a video where cutie was quite confused and the researcher asked if they would prefer to have videos without confusion. 137 00:25:30.510 --> 00:25:43.710 Joanne Lobato: They were adamant that they preferred the confused once they called it, and in this video watch for one of the students to share her, she feels like an alien in her mouth class when she's confused. 138 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:57.960 If you had a choice I Sasha and academy no confusion about where to put the focus and they figured it out versus let's say kitchen just knew that it was one quarter and they know how to place it, which would you rather watch. 139 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.590 That you were confused no it's because you're learning with them. 140 00:26:05.760 --> 00:26:10.320 And you don't mind that you liked it helps because some theory feeling. 141 00:26:11.940 --> 00:26:16.920 And you're learning you're learning, step by step in there you're like a leader. 142 00:26:20.040 --> 00:26:25.380 it's where I felt like it was doing like an example apple like I was the only alien there. 143 00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:29.520 were always there's always someone comes to us so. 144 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:41.760 Joanne Lobato: In the Leader session she reflects again on confusion and says, you know what I get really confused I get isolated like i'm the only one. 145 00:26:42.330 --> 00:26:53.610 Joanne Lobato: But then, knowing that she meaning sasha's confused too we're both confused, you know it's it seems like by seeing other kids being confused you feel part of a community of learners. 146 00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:00.630 Joanne Lobato: Now I know that most of you do research at the undergraduate level, and so, for me, this research. 147 00:27:01.590 --> 00:27:10.410 Joanne Lobato: suggests other questions that could be researched at the undergraduate level like what undergraduates value and find comfort in viewing videos of their peers confusion. 148 00:27:11.070 --> 00:27:21.870 Joanne Lobato: I have a doctoral student right now Mike foster who is designing a dissertation study and as part of it he's gonna be working with a college algebra students at our university. 149 00:27:22.380 --> 00:27:30.930 Joanne Lobato: And one thing he's going to be doing is comparing their orientation towards the talent in unscripted versus scripted by law logic videos. 150 00:27:35.190 --> 00:27:42.180 Joanne Lobato: The second research finding comes from another dissertation that came out of the project by see David walters. 151 00:27:42.930 --> 00:27:51.690 Joanne Lobato: He worked with undergraduate math majors and one finding had to do with the centering so the centering is a PhD and notion. 152 00:27:52.110 --> 00:28:02.820 Joanne Lobato: That involves taking our perspective, other than your own, and in particular understanding how your perspective, how someone else's perspective differs from your own. 153 00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:10.530 Joanne Lobato: This is really important for the practice of argumentation in scientific and mathematical domains. 154 00:28:12.660 --> 00:28:28.530 Joanne Lobato: to usher at all, also comment on how it's important for teachers teachers who could dissenter are able to distinguish their students reasoning from their own which makes them more likely to be able to leverage students thinking productively while teaching. 155 00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:42.480 Joanne Lobato: So Steve David walters did a study with seven recent graduates, they were all math majors and just before they entered a secondary teaching credential Program. 156 00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:53.100 Joanne Lobato: And he ran a mini course in the summer, with them 12 hours for the use the mouth talk videos from this problem unit regularly. 157 00:28:54.270 --> 00:29:02.340 Joanne Lobato: And he investigated many things, but one thing is shifts in there, the undergraduates ability to dissenter. 158 00:29:03.210 --> 00:29:11.970 Joanne Lobato: And I just want to share a brief example this came from a student that he called Marshall it was in the post interview. 159 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:22.260 Joanne Lobato: After the course had ended, and he was asked to use this definition of a parabola to find the to derive the equation of a general problem. 160 00:29:22.710 --> 00:29:36.090 Joanne Lobato: Now they had not covered this task in the course it turns out that session cuny had solve this task, but this had not been shared with the participants and so Marshall initially. 161 00:29:36.750 --> 00:29:47.220 Joanne Lobato: uses his knowledge of a basic equation, along with translation he comes up with a correct equation, but he doesn't end up referring to the definition. 162 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:58.650 Joanne Lobato: You know the interviewer at one point says, could you point out where you use the definition of a problem and hope you find that he says Oh, I guess, I didn't really use it directly just relied a lot on my prior knowledge. 163 00:29:59.430 --> 00:30:07.020 Joanne Lobato: he tries to second solution nuff said this when he starts by attending to the definition labels of focus in director X. 164 00:30:07.620 --> 00:30:19.950 Joanne Lobato: But then moves away from it uses a distance formula and then, when asked about geometric depth information has to do a bunch of algebraic calculations to. 165 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:25.230 Joanne Lobato: come up with that information, instead of using it as sort of the grounding point to start from. 166 00:30:26.190 --> 00:30:35.040 Joanne Lobato: But then in a third attempt the researcher asked Marshall what is what is Marshall things session kiani could do. 167 00:30:35.490 --> 00:30:46.200 Joanne Lobato: And again he had not seen such and can we solve this problem of the we have tape of them doing it and it's uncanny how, when asked this, he was able to exactly predict. 168 00:30:47.010 --> 00:30:56.250 Joanne Lobato: The way they would do it i'm just sort of highlighting here the the similarities between marshals work and what slashing kimmy actually did. 169 00:30:59.070 --> 00:31:02.310 Joanne Lobato: So you don't need to read all that just kind of seeing the similarities. 170 00:31:04.110 --> 00:31:22.380 Joanne Lobato: And not only that, but he was able to explain identify what slashing cuny might understand and what they might have difficulty understanding which we think provides evidence of dissenting i'm just not play a free audio naked figure out the best is he also. 171 00:31:23.820 --> 00:31:26.340 label this side of the triangle so. 172 00:31:27.360 --> 00:31:31.350 X minus age we I think they would have. 173 00:31:33.120 --> 00:31:36.030 Say look at that distance, they would have the y. 174 00:31:38.520 --> 00:31:55.680 minus K to get to the vertex and then they need to take away a little more than need to take away P, so you know this whole thing why so if you take away K, you get all the way up to the focus and if you add P back in you get back down to the jury and that's what they want at this. 175 00:31:56.820 --> 00:31:58.230 point to the directors. 176 00:32:00.780 --> 00:32:16.290 Joanne Lobato: So when prompted to think about slashing cuny Marshall seem to be able to dissenter by shifting his point of view, and we think that the regular use of these videos of the talent learning over time, help support that D centering. 177 00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:30.720 Joanne Lobato: So you know, this makes me think about questions for deeper research could dialogic videos be used to model important scientific and mathematical practices like scientific habits of mind. 178 00:32:31.590 --> 00:32:50.040 Joanne Lobato: persistence and Problem Solving quantification argumentation proving and could vicarious learners improving those practices from engaging with such videos I think there's a lot of unanswered and important questions to be pursued. 179 00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:55.410 Joanne Lobato: And, in the final research finding that I want to share with you. 180 00:32:56.610 --> 00:33:03.150 Joanne Lobato: We discovered a variety of ways that by carriers by curious learners approach dialogic videos. 181 00:33:04.020 --> 00:33:10.260 Joanne Lobato: And this comes from this study in which we put a fairly large number of the high school students. 182 00:33:10.650 --> 00:33:21.150 Joanne Lobato: For a qualitative study in front of one lesson, the lesson on parabolas with session county that you've been watching they all came from a pretty traditional algebra one class. 183 00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:39.180 Joanne Lobato: And they watched smashing cuny create the parabola from its definition, then we had them solve the exact same task and we use the same task because it's actually really complex and it's complex enough to be challenging for vicarious learners even after watching the videos. 184 00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:46.260 Joanne Lobato: And we found that all of them engaged with the videos and appropriated something. 185 00:33:46.950 --> 00:34:03.450 Joanne Lobato: But their approach is different and we called them games that the my curious learners play to go like we identified four of them which convey in just a minute, and that those Games had consequences for the problem solving behavior of the vicarious learners. 186 00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:22.920 Joanne Lobato: So we used adapted game game board theory like board games in which players behaviors goal directed and guided by a set of rules that regulate their activity in the game their use of pieces and the game and their actions towards other players. 187 00:34:23.970 --> 00:34:29.910 Joanne Lobato: We inferred ways in which the vicarious learners behavior appeared to be regulated by rules governing. 188 00:34:30.330 --> 00:34:40.140 Joanne Lobato: The activity of creating a problem, what information they attended to, in the videos and the way they justified points being on their problem or not to the researcher. 189 00:34:41.100 --> 00:34:52.320 Joanne Lobato: And we afford inferred for games, the first game, we called the definition game and, fortunately, the majority of the vicarious learners played this game as to the talent. 190 00:34:52.770 --> 00:35:05.100 Joanne Lobato: And By this we mean that they attended to the definition of the problem in the videos they use that definition to create and justify points, the definition of a problem be guided govern their behavior. 191 00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:17.070 Joanne Lobato: But you know, even though the majority played the definition game, a number of other students play another game called a concept image game. 192 00:35:18.630 --> 00:35:36.150 Joanne Lobato: And it was striking test that even though the definition of a problem was displayed or stated 41 times in the videos some very curious learners ignored it and instead rewind only on their concept image of a parabola as a u shaped curve on important grid. 193 00:35:38.640 --> 00:35:45.600 Joanne Lobato: They attended to grid like features of the talents trying so instead of attending to the definition of a problem they attended to things like. 194 00:35:46.260 --> 00:36:04.680 Joanne Lobato: Those parallel lines that session cuny drew and different measurements that they took and then use those to create points that fit their concept image of an ever widening you curve, even when it resulted in points that were incorrect and didn't fit the definition. 195 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:24.780 Joanne Lobato: The other game is the procedure game these students seemed to focus on identifying a set of steps to follow from the videos and it resulted in them often mimicking ancillary details like the length of the director X or the distance between the parallel lines. 196 00:36:26.010 --> 00:36:26.550 Joanne Lobato: And will. 197 00:36:27.690 --> 00:36:39.810 Joanne Lobato: pair of vicarious learners seem to interpret the goal as providing feedback to our research team on the design of our videos they gave us advice about design elements like color and sound. 198 00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:49.920 Joanne Lobato: And this was based on their own experiences of creating YouTube videos about one press to solve the mathematical tasks they then shifted to the concept image game. 199 00:36:52.170 --> 00:37:07.440 Joanne Lobato: So I think this research on games suggests some other questions for both are teaching and research, how should we frame videos that embody a different way of engaging with math or science that has marked students previous experiences. 200 00:37:08.160 --> 00:37:28.140 Joanne Lobato: And can we create or use online surrounds for alternative videos that could productively support their use by both framing the videos and guiding discussions of the videos and hoping by Chris learners attend to what is both you know, important to notice in in these videos. 201 00:37:29.730 --> 00:37:47.040 Joanne Lobato: So, just a quick thanks to other members of my research team and now i'd like to open it up with help from Joe have any questions you have but also i'd love to hear comments about the work and also connections to your own work. 202 00:37:49.650 --> 00:37:57.660 Joe Dauer (he/him): Great Thank you so much, I plan on this was fantastic, and so we have a number of questions and I wanted to start off with. 203 00:37:59.040 --> 00:38:03.720 Joe Dauer (he/him): A few questions that were kind of more about the structure, the structure so more like, though. 204 00:38:05.820 --> 00:38:12.330 Joe Dauer (he/him): Maybe softball questions which is like what's the length of there's like three here that kind of it in this like what's the length of the videos. 205 00:38:13.410 --> 00:38:19.860 Joe Dauer (he/him): Did the learners watch it in pairs also in is there value there and did you write the scripts. 206 00:38:21.570 --> 00:38:31.590 Joanne Lobato: So all of our videos are unscripted so the dialogue is just natural between the kids, but what we do after words is we. 207 00:38:33.150 --> 00:38:40.020 Joanne Lobato: You know, Edit the videos and I guess that's a kind of script is that we're putting together a storyline afterwards. 208 00:38:41.610 --> 00:38:54.480 Joanne Lobato: So in our videos if you go to our website you'll see that each lesson is broken into four to seven short videos and each video is called an episode and it's between two and 10 minutes long. 209 00:38:55.890 --> 00:39:04.380 Joanne Lobato: And we actually use different video types for those episodes because our emphasis really on Problem Solving not on procedural knowledge. 210 00:39:05.460 --> 00:39:13.140 Joanne Lobato: We have a making sense take video that starts a lesson, where the talent, or just comprehending the problem situation. 211 00:39:13.530 --> 00:39:18.750 Joanne Lobato: And then they have an exploring episode where they're actually solving the problem. 212 00:39:19.110 --> 00:39:25.290 Joanne Lobato: Then there's a reflecting video where they look back on what they've done and explain it again make connections. 213 00:39:25.560 --> 00:39:33.210 Joanne Lobato: And then there's a repeating your reasoning which uses a pair of tasks it tells the vicarious learners to stop the video. 214 00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:41.280 Joanne Lobato: and try the problem on their own and then resume the video so it's sort of like practice within a conceptually you know Problem Solving oriented video. 215 00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:54.090 Joanne Lobato: We did all our studies and using pairs as the very curious lawyers, because of research by Mickey G and colleagues that have demonstrated that was much more effective. 216 00:39:54.420 --> 00:40:09.360 Joanne Lobato: To use pairs rather than single terms, we also just for research takes the system such exploratory work wanted to get a good trace of what they were saying is they were interacting with the videos choose a better if I stop share at this point or. 217 00:40:11.160 --> 00:40:13.020 Joe Dauer (he/him): yeah yeah I think that's okay yeah. 218 00:40:14.850 --> 00:40:18.180 Joe Dauer (he/him): So another question that was earlier on. 219 00:40:18.750 --> 00:40:35.070 Joe Dauer (he/him): But I think it's really still pertinent here, which is the the inclusion of faces hamper the cognitive processes so meaning like if you were just to show the hands or that and still get a dialogue like, how does the inclusion or exclusion of faces affect. 220 00:40:35.910 --> 00:40:38.790 Joe Dauer (he/him): How the vicarious learning can take place. 221 00:40:40.080 --> 00:40:43.470 Joanne Lobato: wow that's a really that's a good question um. 222 00:40:44.700 --> 00:40:47.850 Joanne Lobato: So I have two thoughts I mean I don't know the answer to that. 223 00:40:48.540 --> 00:41:05.040 Joanne Lobato: My thought my guests from the work we did on the orientation of a curious learners towards the talent and again this was very exploratory was it the faces matter that they, you know that kids wanted to be able to connect with and did connect with the talent as peers. 224 00:41:06.270 --> 00:41:14.310 Joanne Lobato: You know I sense that the question has to do with cognitive overload and Dirk Miller has an interesting paper, where he. 225 00:41:15.210 --> 00:41:30.210 Joanne Lobato: tackles head on some research that's been done on cognitive overload with the production of videos and he says that for dialogic videos is actually there might be some cognitive overload but on the other hand, that. 226 00:41:30.570 --> 00:41:40.110 Joanne Lobato: The importance of getting misconceptions displayed in the dialogue is more important, and he showed how that was I can't remember the exact study right now but. 227 00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:52.620 Joanne Lobato: I think that that there's important things about having the ideas related to the individuals in the dialogue, but I think it's an open question for investigation yeah. 228 00:41:54.840 --> 00:42:03.030 Joe Dauer (he/him): There was a question about why, and I think you might have hit on this a little bit there at the end, but why learned about parabolas like what. 229 00:42:03.210 --> 00:42:21.810 Joe Dauer (he/him): What is this what's motivating like you know, is there anything in the in the way it's presented that is motivating for the students in order to learn about the prevalence or is it to learn how to apply the definition of a problem and work through. 230 00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:32.640 Joanne Lobato: that's a good question so i'm in the original grant it was just a small exploratory Dr K 12 grand. 231 00:42:32.910 --> 00:42:40.200 Joanne Lobato: I wanted to pick some things we did one unit on proportional reasoning, when you don't have a problem, I wanted to do something that i'd had some experience. 232 00:42:40.680 --> 00:42:51.600 Joanne Lobato: Working with either high school kids or undergraduates on, and the reason I think the topic was important, I mean it is something that kids are required to. 233 00:42:52.410 --> 00:43:05.700 Joanne Lobato: cover in high school, especially the vertex form of a parabola it's generally done much faster, the reason I wanted to sort of open it up and unpack it is there's a lot of opportunity for. 234 00:43:06.630 --> 00:43:11.850 Joanne Lobato: Quantitative reasoning and by quantitative reasoning really following pat Thompson here and talking about. 235 00:43:13.080 --> 00:43:24.960 Joanne Lobato: attributes that are measurable in a situation, so what I found what I find when I work with math majors in Of course I teach where I show these videos have them solve problems is their initial. 236 00:43:26.250 --> 00:43:32.850 Joanne Lobato: way of approaching similar problems is not to think about the seems crazy, but to not think about. 237 00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:50.580 Joanne Lobato: Points and different things in the coordinate plane in terms of distances so that's the quantity, that seems really important that gets highlighted in session and cuties work, and I think that can be very powerful for students at both the undergraduate and the high school level yeah. 238 00:43:50.760 --> 00:44:04.380 Joe Dauer (he/him): Great um so there's a kind of a series of comments here i'm going to try to synthesize but um was about the interaction with Marshall and so is. 239 00:44:04.740 --> 00:44:19.140 Joe Dauer (he/him): Doing or is watching the videos but also his his work there, and so i'm wondering, so the question was about when he was asked what, when asked what the students in the video would do is he kind of has a very different method. 240 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:19.950 Right. 241 00:44:21.330 --> 00:44:38.160 Joe Dauer (he/him): So they're wondering if Marshall believed he knew more or new less and if that's what prompted this shift in Problem Solving like trying to be comparative to these others that are in the video if that's what's actually driving that kind of shift at the problem solving that went on. 242 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:48.750 Joanne Lobato: So this research came from see David walters who was my doctoral student at the time and I don't remember all of the details, but I do remember. 243 00:44:49.050 --> 00:45:05.700 Joanne Lobato: That Marshall actually looking back on his different solutions actually ended up valuing the more quantitative reasoning approach that had more explicit attention to geometric features and distances in the coordinate plane of session county. 244 00:45:07.110 --> 00:45:18.210 Joe Dauer (he/him): Great and the last question really is about the D centering and weather like it if you've thought much about. 245 00:45:19.470 --> 00:45:32.790 Joe Dauer (he/him): Whether that's a teachable skill like is that something that instructors, how do you how do you get students to do that the centering a little more effectively. 246 00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:46.890 Joanne Lobato: You know we've been in method for teacher preparation and we've been sharing then yet some videos of kids thinking, for you know, two decades now. 247 00:45:47.250 --> 00:45:54.780 Joanne Lobato: But one thing I think that's really special about videos where you can track the same pair of students over time. 248 00:45:55.140 --> 00:46:05.520 Joanne Lobato: And by the way, i've been using the probably unit in a mouse course today teach at San Diego state for perspective taken during high school teacher so they're right at the end of their math major. 249 00:46:06.180 --> 00:46:25.380 Joanne Lobato: And I notice that they are able to the Center in part because they come to know those kids it's not just we haven't yet so quick upstarts but they actually start to become able to think like the kids and we're actually using. 250 00:46:26.160 --> 00:46:36.210 Joanne Lobato: Some of these materials at CSU Channel Islands right now also brooke Ernest is using them with her mouth majors and I think that this trajectory of the. 251 00:46:36.660 --> 00:46:48.990 Joanne Lobato: Students being able to add sustained experience with this same students, over time, helps with that D centering that they come to actually value and be able to predict. 252 00:46:49.740 --> 00:47:01.680 Joanne Lobato: The this what the students will do and come to see them as really capable problem solvers and I think that that a longer exposure has a special performance that that i'd like to do more research on. 253 00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:15.690 Joe Dauer (he/him): Great well so that's the end of the time that we have and so thank you very much to the bottle for that wonderful presentation we really appreciate that and hopefully you're able to. 254 00:47:18.150 --> 00:47:24.510 Joe Dauer (he/him): still be at the conference for the rest of the people can track you down if they have additional questions or email you and. 255 00:47:25.530 --> 00:47:42.330 Joe Dauer (he/him): So we have a short break there's about a 15 minute break and then we will get back together at 230 and those are the concurrent sessions in rooms BC and the army, so thank you all and we'll See you in another.