WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:13.290 Alena Moon (she/her): Let us get into our second session, it is my pleasure to introduce our keynote speaker beth schuessler. 2 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:18.810 Alena Moon (she/her): She is a professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at the University of Tennessee. 3 00:00:20.040 --> 00:00:27.450 Alena Moon (she/her): So that's completed a bs in biology at vanderbilt and then was trained as a botanist at Louisiana State University. 4 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:44.400 Alena Moon (she/her): And she had a cool path through informal science, education, before starting the tenure track position so she's worked my favorite at a swamp nature park where you read lead field trips, which is the coolest. 5 00:00:45.540 --> 00:00:53.820 Alena Moon (she/her): And found her way back to a tenure track role at university of Tennessee where she and her group are exploring student perceptions of anxiety. 6 00:00:54.270 --> 00:01:02.430 Alena Moon (she/her): and persistence and then their perceptions of instructor support ignis so we're going to hear a little bit about that and without further ado, take it away but. 7 00:01:03.540 --> 00:01:08.850 Beth Schussler (she/her): To Thank you so much for the introduction i'm really excited to be here today, giving this talk. 8 00:01:09.570 --> 00:01:14.730 Beth Schussler (she/her): This is going to be about how and why I think emotion is the hidden curriculum. 9 00:01:15.240 --> 00:01:27.870 Beth Schussler (she/her): In our classrooms and i'm going to be supporting that with some research that my group has been doing on student anxiety, this is specific to introductory biology classes at the University of Tennessee so a large are one institution. 10 00:01:28.470 --> 00:01:39.150 Beth Schussler (she/her): And, before I get going too far, I want to stop and acknowledge the folks that have helped me with this work on Ben England and Jennifer regarding have been long standing collaborators on this work. 11 00:01:39.690 --> 00:01:45.570 Beth Schussler (she/her): Miranda and Mary Ruse or recently kind of came in and started doing some of the work on instructors support. 12 00:01:45.990 --> 00:01:54.870 Beth Schussler (she/her): Marguerite Caroline and hope, have all been really instrumental and kind of helping us get out of our heads and introduce new ideas and lab meetings. 13 00:01:55.170 --> 00:02:04.410 Beth Schussler (she/her): And we always want to thank the instructors and students of the biology 150 and 160 classes at the University of Tennessee without them we would have no data. 14 00:02:05.220 --> 00:02:11.820 Beth Schussler (she/her): Early funding for this work was provided through University of Tennessee and also through a grant from the nsf. 15 00:02:12.660 --> 00:02:20.850 Beth Schussler (she/her): So I want to start off by having you all think back to the very first college science course that you ever took. 16 00:02:21.210 --> 00:02:31.020 Beth Schussler (she/her): And I want you to think about what you remember about that course and i'm going to ask you to reflect and then put some short answers into the chat so that I can kind of see what you all are thinking about. 17 00:02:49.770 --> 00:02:55.260 Beth Schussler (she/her): Large lecture classes, the room was cold excited memorization. 18 00:02:56.520 --> 00:03:01.260 Beth Schussler (she/her): Not remembering much what percent of you are going to fail right that's always a fun one. 19 00:03:03.420 --> 00:03:07.110 Beth Schussler (she/her): Uncertainty chatting with friends during lecture. 20 00:03:08.730 --> 00:03:13.110 Beth Schussler (she/her): Lots lots of memories and lots of things that I kind of remember as well. 21 00:03:14.040 --> 00:03:21.960 Beth Schussler (she/her): I remember my my instructor I remember really liking my instructor and I thought he was really funny like that's what I remember about my experience. 22 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:34.470 Beth Schussler (she/her): And i'm I bring this up, because I think that is College on science instructors we we always really want students to answer that question with like this intense reflection on the content and, like all of the things that they remembered. 23 00:03:34.770 --> 00:03:41.580 Beth Schussler (she/her): And can spout back in terms of what we taught them, but the reality is is that a lot of these as effective. 24 00:03:41.880 --> 00:03:49.140 Beth Schussler (she/her): Emotions these experiences are the things that kind of override that the very first things that we think of when we think back to our to our courses. 25 00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:59.490 Beth Schussler (she/her): And an effect generally as these subjective feelings or experiences that are in response to a particular circumstance, and it involves cognition. 26 00:04:00.090 --> 00:04:13.590 Beth Schussler (she/her): physiology and emotions and the sequence of these things is hilariously depending on your theoretical perspective I don't really have a theoretical perspective on that i'm not a psychologist i'm going to be just talking about emotion today. 27 00:04:14.310 --> 00:04:20.460 Beth Schussler (she/her): and specifically about emotion in these introductory science courses that a lot of us have a lot of familiarity with. 28 00:04:21.210 --> 00:04:29.010 Beth Schussler (she/her): emotion is omnipresent in these classes, it is um it's actually contagious it can move from the instructor to the students student to student. 29 00:04:29.460 --> 00:04:40.380 Beth Schussler (she/her): It is just a constant presence and it is a, it is a reaction to the circumstances that largely we create as instructors right, because as instructors we create. 30 00:04:40.650 --> 00:04:51.810 Beth Schussler (she/her): The teaching and learning conditions in our classes and so we're creating these emotional responses and these emotions are powerful and they really have a lot to do with student cognition. 31 00:04:52.290 --> 00:05:05.670 Beth Schussler (she/her): motivation engagement and because of that, because of their intertwined ignis with those things they impact outcomes that we're very interested in as instructors persistence performance things like that. 32 00:05:06.840 --> 00:05:13.170 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so I find this to be a really interesting dynamic right, because here we are, as instructors and our large lecture classes. 33 00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:18.060 Beth Schussler (she/her): And we're very focused on the content and the things that we really want them to learn in our classes. 34 00:05:18.450 --> 00:05:21.600 Beth Schussler (she/her): And yet there's all this pesky emotion running around. 35 00:05:21.930 --> 00:05:32.190 Beth Schussler (she/her): And particularly in science, we tend to want to ignore it, because we think well you know we don't really deal with emotion and science and so we're just going to not worry about the emotion that's going on in the classroom. 36 00:05:33.060 --> 00:05:37.620 Beth Schussler (she/her): And I think it's really similar to the way that kind of assessment works in the classroom. 37 00:05:38.280 --> 00:05:47.670 Beth Schussler (she/her): I gibson Simpson said that assessment is the hidden curriculum and I remember just That being so, profound to me because assessment is the thing that we often don't want to think about. 38 00:05:48.060 --> 00:05:58.800 Beth Schussler (she/her): We get really annoyed when students are focused on grades when they want to know what's on the exam, but these things are super important to students and so they're focused on assessment makes that. 39 00:05:59.400 --> 00:06:05.700 Beth Schussler (she/her): A really kind of driving dynamic within the classroom and we shouldn't ignore our assessment, our assessment is important to learning. 40 00:06:06.420 --> 00:06:13.260 Beth Schussler (she/her): And it's much the same way with emotion right emotion is a hidden curriculum to it is intertwined with. 41 00:06:13.590 --> 00:06:26.040 Beth Schussler (she/her): The process and the products of learning Australian to mellow side, say, and so, if we ignore the emotion in the classroom then we're actually ignoring one of the really principal ways that we can help our students to learn. 42 00:06:26.520 --> 00:06:28.890 Beth Schussler (she/her): So you know don't ignore it in the classroom. 43 00:06:29.580 --> 00:06:37.890 Beth Schussler (she/her): So i'm hoping today that one of the big take home take arms for you is is that you understand that emotion is a hidden curriculum and that it's something we should attend to. 44 00:06:38.250 --> 00:06:45.540 Beth Schussler (she/her): And i'm hoping to convince you of that by talking about four different things about student anxiety that we've been looking at in my lab. 45 00:06:46.170 --> 00:06:49.740 Beth Schussler (she/her): Number one that student anxiety is shaped by the past. 46 00:06:50.220 --> 00:06:59.580 Beth Schussler (she/her): By things that that actually happened to students before they come into our classes, but that profoundly influenced their current and their future perspectives in your course in the major. 47 00:07:00.210 --> 00:07:04.980 Beth Schussler (she/her): And that is instructors we shape these anxiety experiences of our students. 48 00:07:05.610 --> 00:07:21.090 Beth Schussler (she/her): That instructors support maybe something critical that we can use in the classroom to finally attend to affect to really think about how do we plan for emotion in our classroom so that we can help students, learn and use emotion, to help us do that. 49 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:36.360 Beth Schussler (she/her): So i'm not going to have you write in chat this time, but I do want you to think back again to that first college science course and think about some of the reasons why you felt the particular emotions that you felt. 50 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:41.610 Beth Schussler (she/her): give you a second to think about. 51 00:07:42.900 --> 00:07:54.780 Beth Schussler (she/her): So this is one theoretical perspective that you can take when you're studying emotion, this is an appraisal based emotion theory, this is techcrunch control value theory of achievement emotions. 52 00:07:55.380 --> 00:08:03.930 Beth Schussler (she/her): And what pecker would say is that these emotions are generated by students appraisal of their perceptions and their perceived. 53 00:08:04.590 --> 00:08:12.420 Beth Schussler (she/her): control over their ability to do well on the course and the value that they place on doing well in the course. 54 00:08:13.020 --> 00:08:24.840 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so, if you take those two things together on that generates the emotions that students feel so, for example, if i'm in a biology course, and I have high value, I really wanted to well on it. 55 00:08:25.110 --> 00:08:34.080 Beth Schussler (she/her): But I am uncertain about my ability to do well, so i'm uncertain about my control that typically generates the emotion that we call anxiety. 56 00:08:34.500 --> 00:08:45.690 Beth Schussler (she/her): If I have high value in the course, but I really do not feel that I have any control over doing well in the course, then the emotion is hopelessness just a sad kind of emotion. 57 00:08:46.470 --> 00:08:58.530 Beth Schussler (she/her): Now these two appraisals are shaped by many other things that are environmental or contextual nature so as an example instructor practices, the peers, in the course. 58 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:09.150 Beth Schussler (she/her): Your goals for why you're actually there even in college your emotional predispositions and your experiences on that you've had in you know, maybe science, or something in the past. 59 00:09:10.830 --> 00:09:19.980 Beth Schussler (she/her): And these things, then these emotions that you feel because of the environmental contextual variables impacting the appraisals that control and value. 60 00:09:20.310 --> 00:09:24.030 Beth Schussler (she/her): Then, these emotions are generated and those emotions them. 61 00:09:24.330 --> 00:09:39.150 Beth Schussler (she/her): are basically filtered through your individual cognitive characteristics or motivational characteristics, to actually get to the final outcome now peck room talks about achievement as the final outcome, but there are other certainly other outcomes that we might talk about. 62 00:09:40.680 --> 00:09:52.740 Beth Schussler (she/her): In our lab we are specifically interested in instructor practices and how instructor practices can impact the appraisals of control and value that students make that then can. 63 00:09:53.580 --> 00:10:06.150 Beth Schussler (she/her): arise this anxiety on this emotion of anxiety and what the level of anxiety is and then, once students have this anxiety we're interested in how that impacts potential persistence in the biology major. 64 00:10:08.370 --> 00:10:16.830 Beth Schussler (she/her): So we need to talk about anxiety anxiety is one of the most prevalent emotions that students feel in our classrooms in college. 65 00:10:17.250 --> 00:10:27.690 Beth Schussler (she/her): And it is interestingly it's it's a prospective emotion, so that means that it is a worry or concern about something that might happen in the future, or might not. 66 00:10:28.020 --> 00:10:41.580 Beth Schussler (she/her): It is classified as a negative emotion, but it's interesting because it's also placed as an activating emotion, and so there are conditions under which I inside it can be a good thing, so if you have anxiety about an upcoming exam. 67 00:10:41.850 --> 00:10:49.980 Beth Schussler (she/her): That might activate you to study for the exam and then you do better on that exam than you were perhaps worried about doing, and so there are. 68 00:10:50.430 --> 00:11:04.500 Beth Schussler (she/her): moderately good levels of anxiety that can activate you to do well, but in general, particularly if you experience high anxiety high anxiety can have these negative impacts on student course performance and persistence. 69 00:11:06.090 --> 00:11:16.650 Beth Schussler (she/her): we've been studying anxiety in our introductory biology classes at the University of Tennessee we have two main intro courses, these are for majors now they might be. 70 00:11:17.190 --> 00:11:22.770 Beth Schussler (she/her): Biology majors, but they also might be, you know physics majors or geology majors or something like that. 71 00:11:23.340 --> 00:11:33.930 Beth Schussler (she/her): We have one course that is an organism ecological course we sometimes call that Oh, he be and then we have another course that is our cellular molecular course and we sometimes call that cm be. 72 00:11:34.920 --> 00:11:44.430 Beth Schussler (she/her): These courses are typically taught by one instructor they are typically seating about 220 students that's about our Max right now in these courses. 73 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:57.090 Beth Schussler (she/her): All of the instructors use active learning to various extents it really depends on the instructor they use different types, some might do a lot of group work some just to question and answering on some do cold calling some don't. 74 00:11:57.720 --> 00:12:04.500 Beth Schussler (she/her): A lot of people use clickers that's one of the most common things that people use, and we know from our research that when these. 75 00:12:04.950 --> 00:12:12.120 Beth Schussler (she/her): Active learning practices are deployed that students can feel anxiety toward them particularly question answering in front of their peers. 76 00:12:12.510 --> 00:12:19.170 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so, one of the first things that we wanted to do when we were first exploring anxiety was asked okay well great they have anxiety. 77 00:12:19.410 --> 00:12:31.080 Beth Schussler (she/her): But does that actually mean anything, is it having any negative impacts on the students in our classes, and so we had to figure out ways to measure anxiety and then think about the outcome variables that we wanted to measure. 78 00:12:31.620 --> 00:12:35.010 Beth Schussler (she/her): So i'm going to draw your attention, all the way to the bottom of the slide down here. 79 00:12:35.550 --> 00:12:47.700 Beth Schussler (she/her): down at the bottom of the slide we have at week 14 in the class we asked students, whether they intend to stay in the biology major or not, that is our persistence outcome variable. 80 00:12:48.150 --> 00:13:01.620 Beth Schussler (she/her): And then, at the end of the semester we asked students, we asked the sorry instructors, to give us the final grades for the students, and that is their performance in the class, so we look at persistence and performance as our outcome variables so. 81 00:13:02.460 --> 00:13:14.160 Beth Schussler (she/her): To measure anxiety, we have one measure that is a measure of general anxiety, it is like this over all on kind of how anxious, are you about the biology lecture class in general. 82 00:13:14.520 --> 00:13:21.270 Beth Schussler (she/her): We also ask them about their perception of the difficulty of the course this two are kind of tied up together in one instrument. 83 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:30.150 Beth Schussler (she/her): We also asked about test anxiety so specifically about anxiety toward assessment social anxiety on specifically working in a small group. 84 00:13:30.510 --> 00:13:35.670 Beth Schussler (she/her): and communication anxiety answering questions in front of your classmates which causes a lot of anxiety. 85 00:13:36.180 --> 00:13:49.500 Beth Schussler (she/her): We collect these data at weeks four weeks 14 week for because it's right before the first set of exams in the class and week 14 because it's The week before thanksgiving and we're on semesters and so that's when things kind of are wanting down for us. 86 00:13:50.670 --> 00:13:59.940 Beth Schussler (she/her): So we looked at these things, and we were once again interested in how these might impact these response variables of performance and persistence. 87 00:14:00.210 --> 00:14:05.520 Beth Schussler (she/her): So i'm going to call your attention to the test anxiety and social anxiety results first. 88 00:14:05.970 --> 00:14:14.490 Beth Schussler (she/her): So i'm testing anxiety and social anxiety had no relationship with either performance or persistence on for the students in our class. 89 00:14:14.790 --> 00:14:21.630 Beth Schussler (she/her): That Semester and that's a little surprising test anxiety typically does have some negative impacts on performance. 90 00:14:22.290 --> 00:14:29.460 Beth Schussler (she/her): We didn't find it we didn't find it in another semester, so we don't really know why but that's that's the way it seems to be here at ut. 91 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:35.610 Beth Schussler (she/her): Communication anxiety actually had a slightly positive impact on performance in the class. 92 00:14:35.880 --> 00:14:42.060 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so we think that maybe if you're nervous about answering a question in front of your classmates that that might inspire you. 93 00:14:42.330 --> 00:14:48.240 Beth Schussler (she/her): To pay closer attention, just in case you are called on, and maybe that then helps you to do a little bit better in the class. 94 00:14:48.930 --> 00:14:56.550 Beth Schussler (she/her): perception of difficulty I don't think it's probably a surprising to hear that perception of difficulty was negatively related to performance. 95 00:14:56.940 --> 00:15:02.280 Beth Schussler (she/her): And then we're going to look at general anxiety which is kind of what we're going to be centered on for much of the rest of this talk. 96 00:15:02.640 --> 00:15:10.440 Beth Schussler (she/her): We found that general anxiety had a negative relationship with intent to persist in a major so remember we asked that at week 14. 97 00:15:10.830 --> 00:15:19.290 Beth Schussler (she/her): Now what we found was that it was the anxiety at week for that was related to intention to persist and so, if you felt high anxiety. 98 00:15:19.620 --> 00:15:32.280 Beth Schussler (she/her): In this class at week for the newer more likely at week 14 to say you know I don't think i'm going to be staying in the biology major and so it's early anxiety that really matters which I don't think is all that surprising. 99 00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:42.210 Beth Schussler (she/her): So, once we knew that we needed to know what is it that's driving early anxiety in these classes, what makes students anxious at week four or before. 100 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:52.050 Beth Schussler (she/her): And the way that we approach this is we actually decided to deploy a survey before the Semester started, we call that week zero sometimes. 101 00:15:52.530 --> 00:16:01.440 Beth Schussler (she/her): We asked instructors to send us to the students and then we close the survey before the first class meeting, and so it truly is week zero they never ever had set foot in the class before. 102 00:16:01.830 --> 00:16:11.790 Beth Schussler (she/her): And then of course week four and 14 we asked them to rate their anxiety like we typically do, but then we also ask them to explain why they had that level of anxiety. 103 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:19.950 Beth Schussler (she/her): And what we did is we grouped all of these responses and came up with categories, based on when these things came up in the data set. 104 00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:31.950 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so what we found was that at weeks zero K before they ever stepped foot in the class the two things that were really driving anxiety was that they didn't know what to expect that's you know classic definition of anxiety. 105 00:16:32.310 --> 00:16:42.720 Beth Schussler (she/her): And that it had been a long time since they had taken a biology course in Tennessee they take biology as a freshman in high school, so if they hadn't taken ap it had been four years or more. 106 00:16:43.770 --> 00:16:53.520 Beth Schussler (she/her): And week four and sorry week zero and week four, we found that students were anxious about the size of the class and about having a bad previous biology experience. 107 00:16:54.240 --> 00:17:06.150 Beth Schussler (she/her): And all throughout week 04 14 this kind of never goes away, they were always anxious about the material being hard or complex poor instruction being confused or struggling to understand. 108 00:17:06.630 --> 00:17:18.390 Beth Schussler (she/her): And then, starting at week for, but then continuing is the amount of material or the pace in the class they felt that the class activities were unsupportive in tests and quizzes are driving their anxiety. 109 00:17:19.170 --> 00:17:35.070 Beth Schussler (she/her): And what I did is kind of took a look at these and kind of group them into three uber categories, if you will, on the student expectations student prior experiences and instruct your practices, because they relate to so much of their confusion and anxiety about content. 110 00:17:36.630 --> 00:17:43.920 Beth Schussler (she/her): And we kind of put that into the model right, so we were thinking about what are the things that really impact these control and value appraisals. 111 00:17:44.460 --> 00:17:52.860 Beth Schussler (she/her): Certainly expectations prior experiences and instructor practices and, if you think about the blue bubbles being one large lecture class. 112 00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:57.750 Beth Schussler (she/her): And you're going to have students, of course, that have a variety of different expectations. 113 00:17:58.140 --> 00:18:05.700 Beth Schussler (she/her): that are going to have a variety of different past experiences, and so I think of these two things in particular as having this like prismatic effect. 114 00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:15.930 Beth Schussler (she/her): On these appraisals for control and value and what they do is that they split students into this spectrum of different anxieties that we would you know expect to see in a class. 115 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:27.900 Beth Schussler (she/her): And indeed, we do right, if you look at anxiety and how it varies like the distribution of anxiety so on the X axis seven is high anxiety. 116 00:18:28.170 --> 00:18:36.660 Beth Schussler (she/her): y axis this number of students that are experiencing each level of anxiety, this is three classes combined, we see a bell curve distribution. 117 00:18:37.110 --> 00:18:54.180 Beth Schussler (she/her): Definitely skewed toward lower anxiety, but we have this long trailing tale of students that have this high anxiety experience in their class, and so we can definitely say that it's it's not the same experience for students in the class in terms of the anxiety that they're feeling. 118 00:18:55.380 --> 00:19:05.070 Beth Schussler (she/her): And we know that that has impacts them right, because we know that these anxiety levels can impact, whether or not they're going to persist or not persist in the major. 119 00:19:05.340 --> 00:19:11.340 Beth Schussler (she/her): Now, of course, this can be moderated right by individual student cognitive and motivational. 120 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:23.610 Beth Schussler (she/her): characteristics of some of them might be able to have high anxiety and still persist, but by and large, what we typically see is that the students that have the high anxiety are going to end up not persisting in the biology major. 121 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:39.600 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so what this tells us is that there are a lot of things that are impacting the student experience before they ever get into our classes on that these experiences carry with them into the class they. 122 00:19:40.050 --> 00:19:52.020 Beth Schussler (she/her): They impact the way that the students kind of perceive and take in the things that are happening to them and then they can have impact on what happens to them in terms of whether they want to persist in a major or stay on that career path. 123 00:19:52.500 --> 00:20:04.380 Beth Schussler (she/her): On and so that's concerning but it isn't the whole story either the other part of it is that instructors do have a role in shaping this ultimate student outcome. 124 00:20:05.730 --> 00:20:10.560 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so, if we think about the model and we break it down into let's say three. 125 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:21.450 Beth Schussler (she/her): Large lecture classes so each of these blue bubbles is now one large lecture class right, we know that in each of these lecture classes there's going to be students that have a variety of. 126 00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:33.870 Beth Schussler (she/her): expectations and prior experiences, but there's no reason to assume that the distribution of those things would be wildly different from lecture class to lecture class so then. 127 00:20:34.230 --> 00:20:49.350 Beth Schussler (she/her): instructor practices kind of take over, we as instructors each bring our own perspectives and how we teach the class, those are going to impact control and value appraisals and then we're going to get anxiety and each of these classes, so what is that going to look like. 128 00:20:50.760 --> 00:20:55.860 Beth Schussler (she/her): What we see here is, we see the outcomes of that this is five different. 129 00:20:56.430 --> 00:21:03.480 Beth Schussler (she/her): introductory biology lecture classes over on the far right or the codes for each one of them it doesn't really matter what they are. 130 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:16.290 Beth Schussler (she/her): On these are just within the same semester five different intro bio classes, you can see that we have assessed the average class anxiety level that week since 04 and 14. 131 00:21:16.620 --> 00:21:22.740 Beth Schussler (she/her): And the scale should go all the way up to seven, but I was just trying to focus it in on the trajectories of emotion here. 132 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:32.490 Beth Schussler (she/her): So when you might want to notice in your eyes might be drawn to is um how different these can look so let's look at oh EB two, which is the red line. 133 00:21:32.850 --> 00:21:43.860 Beth Schussler (she/her): Okay, this is not the class you want to be in right, this is the class where whatever level of anxiety you started with on average it's going to just go up over time, and that is not typical. 134 00:21:44.190 --> 00:21:54.240 Beth Schussler (she/her): Typically students have higher anxiety early at week zero, and then it drops down by week four and so you get this like release of anxiety, a little bit non oh up to. 135 00:21:54.870 --> 00:22:01.440 Beth Schussler (she/her): Now honors you get a pretty big release from your anxiety right that drop from week 02 week four. 136 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:11.640 Beth Schussler (she/her): is pretty significant and even though it rebounds up, which is once again typical and a lot of our classes in never even comes close to that starting initial anxiety level. 137 00:22:12.390 --> 00:22:22.650 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so, this variation is certainly problematic in terms of equity right um if you know which class you're in is going to depend on your emotional anxiety experience. 138 00:22:23.100 --> 00:22:27.000 Beth Schussler (she/her): But on the other hand, on the good side is that. 139 00:22:27.540 --> 00:22:42.000 Beth Schussler (she/her): It basically tells us that instructors, have a lot of role to play, and this emotional trajectory that students experience that in fact instructor practices can be a tool for an effect regulation that we. 140 00:22:42.360 --> 00:22:54.240 Beth Schussler (she/her): can serve as an effect regulators in our classes and I think that kavanagh's has a book called the spark of learning if you're interested in emotion in the classroom it's fantastic. 141 00:22:54.900 --> 00:23:04.980 Beth Schussler (she/her): And she says intentionally crafting the impression that we make on students in order to maximize their motivation and learning is one of the profound things that we can do. 142 00:23:05.430 --> 00:23:12.150 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so you know when i'm teaching introductory biology, I can choose and use particular instructor practices. 143 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:22.470 Beth Schussler (she/her): That can actually make a difference in lowering student anxiety in my classroom and then therefore give students a higher probability of persisting in the major. 144 00:23:23.310 --> 00:23:35.820 Beth Schussler (she/her): Great, how do we do that right that's that's the key and that's the hard part and so we've been looking at a lot of different characteristics, this has taken us out of the biology education world. 145 00:23:36.300 --> 00:23:43.410 Beth Schussler (she/her): into a deep dive on the scary dive sometimes into the psychology and the communication literature, where we are very unfamiliar. 146 00:23:44.010 --> 00:23:47.550 Beth Schussler (she/her): But one of the things that that we discovered that we found really fascinating. 147 00:23:47.970 --> 00:23:53.100 Beth Schussler (she/her): was something called autonomy supportive practices and this comes out of the motivation literature. 148 00:23:53.430 --> 00:24:02.340 Beth Schussler (she/her): On it is basically a way that you as a teacher can help to support the motivation of your students by supporting their autonomy. 149 00:24:02.610 --> 00:24:11.130 Beth Schussler (she/her): And not like autonomy, giving them all the control in the classroom but they're on perceived ability to control the outcome for themselves in the course. 150 00:24:11.520 --> 00:24:18.960 Beth Schussler (she/her): And you can see here that anxiety and autonomy supportive practices have a negative relationship that is in the literature. 151 00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:29.460 Beth Schussler (she/her): And also, we ran those numbers in our classes at the University of Tennessee and found that it was true there as well, and so we got really excited about this idea that maybe. 152 00:24:29.820 --> 00:24:44.520 Beth Schussler (she/her): You know instructor support kind of writ large, like not specifically autonomy supportive practices, but what if we could help instructors and be more supportive to their students could this be a way to moderate anxiety in our classes. 153 00:24:45.300 --> 00:24:54.810 Beth Schussler (she/her): And we didn't know right we knew very little about what that might look like, and so we undertook a study and fall of 2019 and the before times. 154 00:24:55.590 --> 00:25:04.680 Beth Schussler (she/her): and basically asked two questions right what is students think makes an instructor's supportive and what is it that might distinguished instructors who are. 155 00:25:05.670 --> 00:25:15.300 Beth Schussler (she/her): rated by their students as either higher and support or lower in support and to do this we studied four of our introductory biology classes. 156 00:25:15.930 --> 00:25:20.940 Beth Schussler (she/her): i'm going to be using on these pseudonyms and these icons throughout on this portion of the talk. 157 00:25:21.270 --> 00:25:35.280 Beth Schussler (she/her): i've got their gender identities, whether they taught the organism will or the cellular course, how long they have been teaching at the University of Tennessee and then their appointment type only Lee was a 10 year line faculty the rest were non tenure track. 158 00:25:37.350 --> 00:25:46.800 Beth Schussler (she/her): to collect data we deployed an online survey at week for because that's when anxiety patters we asked students about their general anxiety level once again seven this high. 159 00:25:47.280 --> 00:25:56.790 Beth Schussler (she/her): We asked them that to then rate the supportive notice of their instructor of the course and to make it simple we just gave them a one to 10 scale were 10 was high support. 160 00:25:57.300 --> 00:26:05.280 Beth Schussler (she/her): And then we asked them why did you rate your instructors supportive fitness like that, and so they had to give us open responses to tell us why they gave that rating. 161 00:26:07.110 --> 00:26:16.530 Beth Schussler (she/her): Now i'm going to show here on this is the distribution of anxiety and each of those four classes i'm going to call attention to our kind of variations right our extremes. 162 00:26:17.130 --> 00:26:29.820 Beth Schussler (she/her): we've got me on the top left and the Green MIA is a particularly low anxiety experience for a lot of students, many of them pegged down at the one, two and three anxiety level none of them had a seven. 163 00:26:30.300 --> 00:26:43.860 Beth Schussler (she/her): at all, and then we've got Ken on the kind of middle right he's in the blue line Ken is a high anxiety instructor and so for students in ken's class they're much more likely actually to on peg out their anxiety at 456 and. 164 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:47.610 Beth Schussler (she/her): A certain amount have seven levels of anxiety, which is our highest. 165 00:26:48.240 --> 00:27:02.070 Beth Schussler (she/her): And I can show this year as well i'm in terms of the average class anxiety level for each of these instructors once again can being a high anxiety and MIA being low and then generally are kind of in the middle. 166 00:27:02.490 --> 00:27:09.900 Beth Schussler (she/her): Now we also asked about support ignis right So these are the class average ratings of supportive. 167 00:27:10.410 --> 00:27:26.940 Beth Schussler (she/her): of each of these instructors, we can see that Ken has the lowest level of support and MIA has the highest level of support which kind of you know, works with the anxiety and, yes, there is a significant negative correlation between anxiety and support for the data so. 168 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:38.370 Beth Schussler (she/her): What we really wanted to know, though, was okay so Ken and Chan are these lower you know student rate of lower support not not terribly low support that lower than lead and MIA. 169 00:27:38.760 --> 00:27:44.160 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so what is it that makes Lee and MIA different to students than can jam. 170 00:27:44.790 --> 00:27:55.710 Beth Schussler (she/her): And to do that, we had to know what to look for and so we went into the data set were students had told us why they had raided their instructors i'm supportive this the way that they did. 171 00:27:56.040 --> 00:28:02.580 Beth Schussler (she/her): And we undertook an inductive qualitative analysis to basically come up with themes of instructors support. 172 00:28:03.060 --> 00:28:09.150 Beth Schussler (she/her): And we had five those are shown here not going to read the quotes but i'll just go briefly through each of these. 173 00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:16.620 Beth Schussler (she/her): So we had a relational theme or students talked about supportive miss in terms of the way it felt to communicate with their instructor. 174 00:28:16.860 --> 00:28:23.790 Beth Schussler (she/her): The way that they felt or perceived that their instructor felt about them in terms of their caring or their helpfulness. 175 00:28:24.300 --> 00:28:30.780 Beth Schussler (she/her): So it was just this on the warm and fuzzy or the not warm and fuzzy right, this could be positive, or it could be negative. 176 00:28:31.590 --> 00:28:40.860 Beth Schussler (she/her): There was instrumental theme instrumental was were extra things that the instructors were doing outside of class like offering office hours or study you know study sessions. 177 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.190 Beth Schussler (she/her): On these are always positive students always like these things. 178 00:28:44.670 --> 00:28:49.020 Beth Schussler (she/her): pedagogical characteristics, these were things that students were doing in class. 179 00:28:49.290 --> 00:28:59.880 Beth Schussler (she/her): and critically, there were things that the students were talking about indicated, whether or not they really thought that the instructor cared about their learning so they can be positive, or they could be negative. 180 00:29:00.570 --> 00:29:06.270 Beth Schussler (she/her): There were personality characteristics, and this was the way that the students thought that the instructor was as a person. 181 00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:20.430 Beth Schussler (she/her): They could be positive or unfortunately negative and then there was this ambiguous theme and ambiguous, is where they weren't quite sure how to rate the supportive of their instructor because they hadn't talked to them, and it was a large class, and so they just didn't know what to put. 182 00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:34.710 Beth Schussler (she/her): So here what i've done is I have organized those themes and buy rating of instructor support, so you can see, on the X axis it goes up to 10, which is our highest level of instructor support. 183 00:29:35.010 --> 00:29:46.860 Beth Schussler (she/her): And I just basically sort of the themes that went along with each of the readings, that the students provided because I want to show you the trend here right So if you look all the way on the left at the number one low support. 184 00:29:47.250 --> 00:29:55.140 Beth Schussler (she/her): The things that students, mostly talked about were negative pedagogical characteristics and negative relational characteristics. 185 00:29:55.800 --> 00:30:05.520 Beth Schussler (she/her): And then let's go to the non dark side, all the way over to the positive you know high support, we see a lot of positive pedagogical characteristics. 186 00:30:05.910 --> 00:30:16.680 Beth Schussler (she/her): We see a lot of instrumental time as many as pedagogical and we see positive relational characteristics, so that kind of told us the overall scene in terms of these themes. 187 00:30:17.010 --> 00:30:22.410 Beth Schussler (she/her): But what we really wanted to get to write was what is it that makes Liam MIA different from. 188 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:34.350 Beth Schussler (she/her): Jan and Kim remembering that Ken and Jan on the left are our lower support instructors and Lee and me are higher support instructors, so we organized the themes by what students in their classes said about them. 189 00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:42.600 Beth Schussler (she/her): And what i'm going to do is just basically show two things that I think we're overall different about them if I look at the positive characteristics right. 190 00:30:43.110 --> 00:30:50.820 Beth Schussler (she/her): If you see the blue bar the blue bars positive relational there seems to be a pretty decent difference between Ken and Jan. 191 00:30:51.060 --> 00:31:03.000 Beth Schussler (she/her): And Lee and MIA and it seems that Liam me I really had a lot of students who were talking about these positive relational like they cared about us, you know they really they were there to help us on those things kind of shown through for Liam MIA. 192 00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:11.520 Beth Schussler (she/her): And then the other thing that was really striking was on the kind of negative side of things for the neutral was Ken and Jan had a. 193 00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:22.470 Beth Schussler (she/her): fairly high amount of negative pedagogical characteristics Leah me it had almost none like students really didn't talk about how their pedagogy and learn class. 194 00:31:22.860 --> 00:31:31.860 Beth Schussler (she/her): Was not helping their learning, they were talking always about how fantastic it was for helping them to learn, but can a Jan got a lot of kind of negative feedback about their pedigree she's. 195 00:31:33.420 --> 00:31:45.660 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so, this tells us something interesting right is that we as instructors, if we really want to attend to emotion in the classroom and, specifically, if I, as an instructor wants to drive anxiety down in my classroom. 196 00:31:45.990 --> 00:31:57.150 Beth Schussler (she/her): Then I need to attend to positive relational characteristics and make sure that i'm doing my pedagogy corrects that i'm not getting these negative pedagogical things and I need to plan for that. 197 00:31:57.660 --> 00:32:10.110 Beth Schussler (she/her): And I think that that's something that's really hard because it's not something that we really talk about right we're taught how to create lectures were taught how to write assessments we're not taught how to gesture appropriately to you know. 198 00:32:10.890 --> 00:32:20.910 Beth Schussler (she/her): help enhance a sense of community in the classroom, but I want to say that these things are actually important words the words that we use in the class are wildly important. 199 00:32:21.330 --> 00:32:23.670 Beth Schussler (she/her): The way that we move around the classroom. 200 00:32:24.300 --> 00:32:34.740 Beth Schussler (she/her): We can move around the classroom we can gesture we can make eye contact and those things actually helped to create something that's called immediacy this is in the communication literature. 201 00:32:35.010 --> 00:32:39.450 Beth Schussler (she/her): It closes the psychological distance between instructors and students. 202 00:32:40.020 --> 00:32:50.580 Beth Schussler (she/her): Our deeds, the way that we act around our students and then our policies right do we have policies that are accommodating that helps students to know that they can come to us if things are going on in their lives. 203 00:32:50.880 --> 00:33:03.690 Beth Schussler (she/her): Are they very black and white we're we're like no No, sorry you don't get to take the exam and so all of these things are in a toolkit for helping us to plan for emotion in the classroom and so just to go through a few examples here. 204 00:33:04.800 --> 00:33:16.170 Beth Schussler (she/her): I have written here on the left some positive emotional characteristics, these are things that students expressed that made them say that that their instructors were positive relational done. 205 00:33:17.100 --> 00:33:23.010 Beth Schussler (she/her): And I just want to go through some things I thought about so maybe I want to use words right. 206 00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:26.670 Beth Schussler (she/her): um, and this is kind of a simple thing, and I think we don't do it enough right. 207 00:33:27.030 --> 00:33:39.090 Beth Schussler (she/her): How would I just tell students that I really want them to succeed in the class or that i'm there to help them see these things right out and maybe, maybe even put them on a slide at the beginning of the of the lecture or something. 208 00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:45.270 Beth Schussler (she/her): I want to use nonverbal gestures and maybe move them around the classroom to indicate approachability to my students. 209 00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:59.910 Beth Schussler (she/her): I want to demonstrate helpfulness to my students by not blowing out of the classroom you know, at the very end of the lecture and not you know not actually stopping and pausing and seeing if anybody has any questions to ask me and I need to have policies for extenuating circumstances. 210 00:34:00.990 --> 00:34:10.020 Beth Schussler (she/her): And then for things like pedagogical ask if they're confused acknowledge their confusion attend to body language and allow them to demonstrate their learning in multiple ways. 211 00:34:13.530 --> 00:34:24.510 Beth Schussler (she/her): The other thing I want to point out is that if we do these things, we can build more equitable environments and so here i've got anxiety on the X axis and support on the y axis, I just want to show you how different. 212 00:34:24.870 --> 00:34:30.540 Beth Schussler (she/her): These two distributions are, if you have high support like Lee and me at the bottom. 213 00:34:30.930 --> 00:34:38.850 Beth Schussler (she/her): Then, what we see is that on the support that these students i'm experience is more equitable across these different anxiety levels. 214 00:34:39.150 --> 00:34:48.210 Beth Schussler (she/her): For Ken and Jan what we see is that the experience is really different if you're a high anxiety versus a low anxiety student and I think that that makes a big difference. 215 00:34:49.830 --> 00:34:56.730 Beth Schussler (she/her): So we have to remember that our instructor practices impact anxiety, but student anxiety impacts their perception of our practices. 216 00:34:57.420 --> 00:35:03.930 Beth Schussler (she/her): And so, finally, I just want to say that emotions can be moderated that emotion is the hidden curriculum, but we can bring it into the light. 217 00:35:04.260 --> 00:35:12.570 Beth Schussler (she/her): We can use words gestures deeds policies to plan to actually help the emotional experience and. 218 00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:25.140 Beth Schussler (she/her): Students attend to these things we know they do right from our data set they are watching these things as cues, and so I think that we need to pay as much attention to them as the students are paying attention to us doing these things. 219 00:35:25.620 --> 00:35:30.030 Beth Schussler (she/her): And with that i'm going to close things down and you all can ask me questions that you. 220 00:35:33.750 --> 00:35:40.230 Alena Moon (she/her): Have Thank you so much um there are so many good questions for you. 221 00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:45.390 Alena Moon (she/her): I did some very impromptu semantic analysis. 222 00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:49.770 Alena Moon (she/her): is to try and ask them questions that popped up multiple times. 223 00:35:49.920 --> 00:36:01.680 Alena Moon (she/her): Okay, so some of the big questions surrounded relationship between student identity and anxiety and then instructor identity and anxiety, can you touch on both of those. 224 00:36:02.250 --> 00:36:04.470 Beth Schussler (she/her): yeah yeah and I wish that I had more. 225 00:36:04.620 --> 00:36:10.650 Beth Schussler (she/her): Data on that i'm so you know a number one University of Tennessee is not known for its. 226 00:36:11.250 --> 00:36:15.660 Beth Schussler (she/her): Wild diversity and so it's really hard for us to to sometimes. 227 00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:28.170 Beth Schussler (she/her): disambiguate data and that way people have asked us in the support on data set, for example, they asked us whether or not they thought that students perceived the male and the female show the man and the woman. 228 00:36:28.740 --> 00:36:37.590 Beth Schussler (she/her): instructors as different we saw no evidence of that we didn't see any comments that referred to anything about gender. 229 00:36:38.070 --> 00:36:48.570 Beth Schussler (she/her): Certainly, you know, we had a man and a woman who were high support a man and a woman who were low support, so it didn't sort out that you know the men were rated as high support. 230 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:58.260 Beth Schussler (she/her): And we, the only thing that we've seen is, and this is kind of weird that might be politics based honestly um is in 2016. 231 00:36:58.590 --> 00:37:11.550 Beth Schussler (she/her): We did see that gender being female impact impacted persistence, so they had higher anxiety and it more negatively impacted their persistence and we never saw that again and i'm not so sure it wasn't a political. 232 00:37:12.990 --> 00:37:14.970 Beth Schussler (she/her): i'm just blaming trump on that one that's all I have to say. 233 00:37:18.540 --> 00:37:35.850 Alena Moon (she/her): So I wonder, one person posed, for example, if maybe certain active learning practices could have differential effects, for example, for underrepresented students who are also facing stereotype threat like cold calling for example, did you observe. 234 00:37:36.540 --> 00:37:43.920 Beth Schussler (she/her): um you know I think so, so the work that katie Cooper and Sarah Brunel have done on this so they've done a lot of work on on. 235 00:37:44.430 --> 00:37:53.520 Beth Schussler (she/her): Student anxiety in bio classrooms and I feel like the work that they have have done has indicated that actually it's the small group work. 236 00:37:53.790 --> 00:38:04.860 Beth Schussler (she/her): That might be more threatening to students, because that is when those on student identities really matter when you have to circle up with a group of people in a large lecture class that you don't know and. 237 00:38:05.220 --> 00:38:17.130 Beth Schussler (she/her): In suddenly on your identity matters and, and you know people are kind of looking at you and you're conscious of it and so their work would indicate that actually the group work on clickers can be rather anonymous. 238 00:38:17.850 --> 00:38:27.840 Beth Schussler (she/her): And you know answering a question in front of a class hilariously causes them a lot of anxiety, even when it's just a volunteer to answer i'm like are you nervous you don't have to do it, but. 239 00:38:28.170 --> 00:38:40.140 Beth Schussler (she/her): It feel very anxious about it on I would imagine cold calling might if it's not done equitably, I do think cold calling has the potential to be harmful, depending on how the instructor is is doing it. 240 00:38:45.150 --> 00:38:52.920 Alena Moon (she/her): Okay, and i'm just going to read alex's question because it's written so effectively it's sometimes expected that women and minorities. 241 00:38:53.490 --> 00:39:03.570 Alena Moon (she/her): Women and minority faculty provide the effective Labor, how is that related to the approach that faculty take on the classrooms or how they position themselves in front of their classrooms. 242 00:39:04.410 --> 00:39:10.590 Alena Moon (she/her): Is as a follow up, is there any relationship between the gender identity, race, ethnicity two levels of anxiety perceived by students. 243 00:39:13.680 --> 00:39:23.280 Beth Schussler (she/her): So Okay, so that was asking about the instructor but then this is this another like interaction between that sorry I should be looking at this myself, but I probably can't find it i'm. 244 00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:27.090 Alena Moon (she/her): Know you're okay so we'll just put I put two questions together. 245 00:39:29.250 --> 00:39:40.650 Alena Moon (she/her): know that minorities and women often provide the effective Labor so I guess how is that related to the approach that these faculty are using in the classrooms and how they position themselves in their classes. 246 00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:52.140 Beth Schussler (she/her): yeah yeah I you know, and this is i'm going to go out on a limb, because I don't have data that can specifically answer that question, but I think that in the support data, for example. 247 00:39:53.670 --> 00:40:03.090 Beth Schussler (she/her): When I think about an instructor like jam i'm very familiar with all these instructors I watched them quite a bit, I think that um that one of the things that impedes. 248 00:40:03.690 --> 00:40:12.690 Beth Schussler (she/her): Jan in particular is that because she is a woman, there are certain expectations that she is going to be warm and fuzzy in the classroom that she is going to be more approachable. 249 00:40:13.020 --> 00:40:15.060 Beth Schussler (she/her): And I think that that isn't her style. 250 00:40:15.690 --> 00:40:29.970 Beth Schussler (she/her): And because of that, I think that she does suffer in the in the supportive ratings because her practices are perfect I mean when I watch like that is perfect active learning implementation and i'm always surprised at her ratings because, and I really think it is. 251 00:40:30.870 --> 00:40:39.420 Beth Schussler (she/her): that she isn't as warm and fuzzy on as she should be i'm certainly I don't is is, and I also think Lee on the on the flip side. 252 00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:54.870 Beth Schussler (she/her): Lee is um you know he's a man, but very approachable very gregarious and I think that that probably does really help because it's not i'm not expected that that you might see that you know in in somebody who is a man. 253 00:40:58.890 --> 00:41:06.810 Alena Moon (she/her): Okay, and I was also wanting so much of this can you give some examples of autonomy supportive practices. 254 00:41:07.650 --> 00:41:16.200 Beth Schussler (she/her): So it's it and i'm really having a dive back and to my memory here so um autonomy supportive practices are things like. 255 00:41:17.370 --> 00:41:27.600 Beth Schussler (she/her): You can offer choice, so, for example, one of the classic things that you could do as an instructor and, by the way this comes out of the K to 12 on teaching world and so some of it is a little hard to translate but. 256 00:41:27.870 --> 00:41:34.110 Beth Schussler (she/her): Maybe you have assignments, where students have a choice in which one of the assignments that they that they complete. 257 00:41:34.500 --> 00:41:41.340 Beth Schussler (she/her): And, but it is also about listening to students, about being explicit that when they have concerns in the class. 258 00:41:41.580 --> 00:41:48.180 Beth Schussler (she/her): that you are willing to listen to them that you're willing to make adjustments to your practices, so that they feel that they are. 259 00:41:48.570 --> 00:41:58.320 Beth Schussler (she/her): contributing to the class as well and that you are responsive to them and listening to their concerns and so it's about trust it's about having having. 260 00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:09.420 Beth Schussler (she/her): I think the instructor having the students back to a certain extent, and so there's a lot of relational things that go into that but then I think also some some policy choices, or the way that you structure your course. 261 00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:23.370 Alena Moon (she/her): So, then, a few people were wondering about anxiety in the coven area era era oops i'm wondering if you can speak to that a little bit. 262 00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:38.490 Beth Schussler (she/her): yeah so I have not done any surveys of students in the in the current coven pandemic, I thought real hard about it um you know I have i've been regularly collecting the data and since 2015 but I. 263 00:42:39.600 --> 00:42:55.440 Beth Schussler (she/her): I didn't feel comfortable deploying the surveys on when things were so chaotic and instructors were so hard pressed to do what they were doing students were feeling overwhelmed and so I chose not to collect any data at all I haven't collected any data since. 264 00:42:56.580 --> 00:43:03.240 Beth Schussler (she/her): We started to collect data in spring of 2020 and then we just stopped on our sprint yeah yeah um and. 265 00:43:03.780 --> 00:43:11.490 Beth Schussler (she/her): So I cannot personally say anything now now how you know the things that I know now about relational and pedagogical characteristics right. 266 00:43:12.330 --> 00:43:22.200 Beth Schussler (she/her): How do you do relational characteristics, you know, in an online like little square you know, like you, can't walk walk around the room, and the same way, you know you can't do icon God forbid my contact you know. 267 00:43:22.770 --> 00:43:30.510 Beth Schussler (she/her): You can't you know I can I gesture, but it's kind of feels like a little bit like a tiny little puppet you know and so i'm not sure if that's you know the same way at all. 268 00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:42.750 Beth Schussler (she/her): And I think our practices are really kind of different, and so I think there's no way that it isn't impacting things, but I did ask them and toward the end of spring 2020 about. 269 00:43:43.230 --> 00:43:50.790 Beth Schussler (she/her): Student perceptions of instructors supportive nervous, because the instructors wanted to know how that was going as they transition to online. 270 00:43:51.150 --> 00:44:03.360 Beth Schussler (she/her): And I was surprised on students felt very supported they felt like the instructors were really doing what they could, but I also think that that was kind of that emergency transition and i'm not so sure that that isn't. 271 00:44:03.900 --> 00:44:10.320 Beth Schussler (she/her): wouldn't be different in this kind of like well you've had a year now you've planned for this, you know why haven't you gotten this right yep. 272 00:44:14.220 --> 00:44:21.360 Alena Moon (she/her): Well, let us all just take a second to think about again for a wonderful talk that was really great. 273 00:44:23.220 --> 00:44:28.290 Alena Moon (she/her): And I think we have a tiny break or we go straight Oh, let me check, one more time. 274 00:44:30.720 --> 00:44:34.680 Stephanie Vendetti- UNL CSMCE- (she/her): You have a tiny 15 minute break okay. 275 00:44:37.110 --> 00:44:40.440 Alena Moon (she/her): But really Thank you beth this was such a good story. 276 00:44:40.620 --> 00:44:47.520 Beth Schussler (she/her): i'm happy that I meant to start my timer I totally forgot, so I was checking the time and I was like I don't know how long i've gone. 277 00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:51.240 Alena Moon (she/her): I oh I didn't even have to try, you were so perfectly on time. 278 00:44:52.650 --> 00:44:57.570 Beth Schussler (she/her): never been i'm all I always run later than I practice like it's just annoys the hell out of me. 279 00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:08.100 Alena Moon (she/her): scrolling some of the comments one colleagues that me.